☩「聖職者の性的虐待は”疫病”、”ゼロ・トレランス”で真剣に対応必要」教皇、帰国途上の機中会見で(Crux)

Pope Francis speaks to reporters aboard a papal flight returning from Canada on July 30, 2022. (Credit: Guglielmo Mangiapane/Pool via Associated Press.)

 

(2023.8.6 Crux  Senior Correspondent  Elise Ann Allen)

  ポルトガル訪問を終えた 教皇フランシスコは6日夕、空路ローマへ帰国途上の機内で、同行記者団と会見して、ポルトガルでの聖職者による数多くの性的虐待、若者の精神的な健康問題、自身の健康状態など、様々な質問に答えられ、女性の司祭叙階を認めず、LGBTQ+の人々の同性婚や秘跡を制限しているカトリック教会の姿勢については、「これは、教会の心の狭さの表れではありません」と言明された。そして、今回の真夏の過酷ともいえるポルトガル訪問のご自身の健康への影響について、「私の健康状態は良好です」と強調された。

*女性司祭や同性婚の禁止は、教会が閉じられていることを意味しない

  会見の中で、「女性やLGBTQ+コミュニティのメンバーが教会のすべての秘跡を受けられないことがあるが、なぜ教会が平等な場になっていないのでしょう」との問いに、教皇は、「教会は誰にでも開かれていますが、教会の内部における活動を規制する法があります」とされ、 教会の法規によれば、そうしたグループは秘跡に与ることができないが、「だからと言って、教会が閉じられているわけではありません。教会で、皆がそれぞれの道を歩む中で神に出会います。教会は母であり、教会はそれぞれの人の道を導いてくれます。 ですから、私は『みんな来なさい。でもあなたはそこにいてください』と言うのが好きではありません。誰でも歓迎します」と語られた。

 祈りや内面的、司牧的な対話の中で、一人ひとりが「成熟の道を探求し」ており、 病気の人も健康な人も、老いた人も若い人も、善い人も悪い人も、教会は歓迎し、人々が成熟の道を一歩ずつ歩むのに同行します。私たちにはそのような経験があります。教会は母であり、すべての人を受け入れるのです」と述べ、「私たちの中で、人生において道徳的な間違いを犯さなかった人がいるでしょうか? 誰もが…私たちはそれぞれ、自分自身の失敗を経験しています。 人生はそのようなものであり、母なる教会は、慈しみの心をもって、すべての人を待っているのです」と強調された。

 

*ファティマの聖母巡礼聖堂で、聖母に捧げたロシアとウクライナを祈られたか

 

 また別の記者は、「教皇が5日にファティマの聖母巡礼聖堂を訪問された時に、なぜウクライナ和平について祈られなかったのか」と質問した。


教皇は、ロシアによるウクライナ軍事侵攻が始まって一か月後の2022年3月25日に、バチカンの聖ペトロ大聖堂で、ロシアとウクライナの「マリアの汚れなき御心への奉献」をされており、ロシアの奉献こそ、ファティマに出現された聖母が牧童に託されたメッセージの中で願われていることと、考えれられていたからだ。

 この質問に対して教皇は、「私は聖母の前で平和を祈りましたが、(その内容を)公けにせず、祈りました… 私たちは平和への祈りを続けなければなりません。 第一次世界大戦のとき、聖母は、平和を求めました、そして今回も私は平和を求め、祈りました」と答えられた。

 

 

  *教皇ご自身の健康は、スピーチを一部読み飛ばしたのは

 

 教皇の健康状態について「視力低下や、腹部手術の直後のポルトガル訪問の過酷なスケジュールの影響を心配する声がありますが」との問いには、「私の健康状態は良好です… 手術後、私は普通の生活を送っています」とされ、「先の手術の後、筋肉が治癒するのを確実にするために、2~3か月間は特別な湿布を貼る必要がありますが、私は大丈夫です」と語られた。

 ポルトガル訪問中の5日の朝、慈善団体関係者たちのために用意した講話の原稿の最初の数段落を読み上げられた後、「照明のせいで読むのが難しい」と言われて、原稿を脇に置かれた。ファティマでの講話の原稿についてもそうされたが、教皇は昨年、白内障治療の手術を受けており、その影響を懸念する声が出ていた。

 だが、教皇は、慈善団体関係者への講話については「前に光があったため、原稿の字が見えなかった」ので、スピーチの一部をカットしたが、 他の原稿の一部をカットして話したのは、「(聴衆との)コミュニケーションをとるためであり、冗談をはさむためです」と説明。 「特に長いスピーチの場合、メッセージの本質を大切にしながら、コミュニケーションをとることに努めたのです… また、若い人たちが、私の講話に神経を集中できる時間は長くないので、彼らに問いかけることもしました。その反応から、私の話が正しい方向に進んでいるかどうかも知ることができるからです」とさらた。

*説教のメッセージは短く、明確に―”拷問”にならぬよう

 

 また、教皇は2013年に出された使徒的勧告「福音の喜び」で説教について詳しく述べられているが、そこでは、司祭たちに良い説教の仕方についても助言しておられる。教皇は 「説教は往々にして”拷問”です。教会は説教の在り方について”回心”する必要があります」、さらに「説教で伝えようとするメッセージは短く、明確にすべきです」と指摘された。

 

 海外訪問の一つとして、地中海国際会議出席のために9月下旬にマルセイユを訪問することについて、教皇は、「マルセイユに行くのは、地中海が心配だから。移民・難民が地中海を船で渡る途中で起きていることは、犯罪です」と語られ、記者たちに、以前話したことのあるスペイン人の作家が書いた『エルマニト』という本を読むよう勧められた。この本は、著者が出会った移民たちの物語を書いており、彼らが旅の途中で耐えた恐怖を詳しく語っている。

 

 

*聖職者の性的虐待は”疫病”、司牧者たちは真剣に対応必要

 

 教皇は、ポルトガルの聖職者による性的虐待問題に関し、数十年の間に約5000人の子供たちが被害に遭っていたことが、独立調査委員会の2月の報告書で明らかにされ、ポルトガルの教会が批判にさらされていることについても、答えられた。教皇はリスポンに到着された日の夜、虐待被害者と支援団体の代表たちと私的に面談されたが、「この会合で、私は”疫病”に触れることができました。途方もない”疫病”です。教会はこの疫病への対応に成熟する必要があります」と言明。また、「虐待を受けた方々と話すのは非常につらい経験でしたが、私がこれから何をすべきかを知る助けとなりました」と語られた。

 世界の教会では、2019年に未成年者保護に関する世界司教協議会会長会議が専門家や被害者も参加して開かれるなど対応が進んでいるが、「深刻な問題なので、真剣に対応を話し合わねばなりません。『ゼロ・トレランス(例外なしの厳しい対応)』いう言葉がよく使われますが、司牧者たちは、真剣に受け止め、対応に取り組まねばなりません」と強調された。

 また最近の性犯罪の特徴の一つとして、小児性愛者が子供たちを聖的に虐待している様子をオンラインでライブ配信することまでされていることを挙げ、「オンラインでの性的搾取の増加」を嘆かれるとともに、「 このような犯罪は無くさねばならない。『誰が撮影したのか』『どこでなされたのか』などを追及せねばなりません」と訴えられた。

*あらゆる虐待の阻止に教会は努める必要

 

 そして、「性的虐待が虐待の唯一のものではなく、児童労働や女性の虐待など、他の形態も存在します」とされ、「教会は、あらゆる形態の虐待を阻止するために努めねばならない。世界中に存在する”虐待の文化”を、人類は改める必要があり、対応は順調に進んでいます」と語られた。

*若者の自殺願望は深刻な問題

 

 「教皇は、若者の間に目立っている、うつ病や自殺願望などの精神的健康問題について、WYD期間中のスピーチでも扱っておられる。カトリック教会の伝統的な教えから、『自殺者は地獄に送られるのではないか』と心配する信徒もいるが」との質問に対しては、「今日、若者の自殺は深刻な問題ですが、マスコミは、あまり話題にしないようです」とされる一方、「WYD期間中に出会ったある若者から1年前に自ら命を絶つかどうか考えていたことを打ち明けられたが、そのように 多くの若者が心理的に苦しんでいます。多くの若者が人生で成功せねばならない、というプレッシャーを感じているにもかかわらず、学校を卒業できず、職に就くこともできず、大きな恥辱を感じて自殺してしまう。 それは問題です」と述べられた。

(翻訳・編集「カトリック・あい」南條俊二)

・・Cruxは、カトリック専門のニュース、分析、評論を網羅する米国のインターネット・メディアです。 2014年9月に米国の主要日刊紙の一つである「ボストン・グローブ」 (欧米を中心にした聖職者による幼児性的虐待事件摘発のきっかけとなった世界的なスクープで有名。映画化され、日本でも全国上映された)の報道活動の一環として創刊されました。現在は、米国に本拠を置くカトリック団体とパートナーシップを組み、多くのカトリック関係団体、機関、個人の支援を受けて、バチカンを含め,どこからも干渉を受けない、独立系カトリック・メディアとして世界的に高い評価を受けています。「カトリック・あい」は、カトリック専門の非営利メディアとして、Cruxが発信するニュース、分析、評論の日本語への翻訳、転載について了解を得て、掲載しています。Crux is dedicated to smart, wired and independent reporting on the Vatican and worldwide Catholic Church. That kind of reporting doesn’t come cheap, and we need your support. You can help Crux by giving a small amount monthly, or with a onetime gift. Please remember, Crux is a for-profit organization, so contributions are not tax-deductible.

 

 

*Vatican Newsによる教皇の機中会見での記者団との一問一答は以下の通り。(英文)

 

Q: Aura Maria Vistas Miguel – Rádio Renascença:
Your Holiness, first of all thank you for your visit to Portugal. Everyone already considers it a success. Everyone is very happy, thank you for coming. I met a high-ranking police officer who told me that he had never seen such an obedient and peaceful crowd. It was beautiful. My question is about Fatima: We know that you went there and prayed in silence in the little chapel. But there was this great expectation, in the very place where Our Lady had made a request to pray for the end of the war (and we are at war at the moment, unfortunately) and the expectation was that the Holy Father would publicly pray for peace; the eyes of the whole world were fixed on you yesterday morning in Fatima. Why did you not do it?

Pope Francis:

I prayed, I prayed. I prayed to Our Lady, and I prayed for peace. I did not advertise this, but I prayed. And we must continually repeat this prayer for peace.

She [Our Lady] made this request during the First World War. And this time I appealed to Our Lady and I prayed. I did not advertise.

Q: João Francisco Gomes – Observador:

Thank you very much Holy Father, I will speak in Spanish, I think it is easier for me. And if you could also answer in Spanish, it would be easier for Portuguese readers to understand. I would like to ask a question about the abuse of minors in the Church in Portugal. In February this year, a report published on the reality of abuse in Portugal said almost 5,000 children have been victims in the last decades. My question is: are you informed about this report that was handed over to the bishops? What do you think should happen with the bishops who knew about the cases of abuse and did not communicate them to the authorities? Thank you very much.

As you all know, in a very private setting, I received a group of people who had been abused. As I always do in these cases, we talked about this plague, this terrible scandal. In the Church, we followed more or less the same behaviour that is currently followed in families and neighbourhoods: we cover it up… We think that 42% of abuse takes place in families or neighbourhoods. We still have to mature and help discover these things. Since the Boston scandal, the Church has become aware that one could not go down random paths, but that one had to take the bull by the horns.

Two and a half years ago there was a meeting of the Presidents of the Bishops’ Conferences, where official statistics on abuse were also provided. And it is serious, the situation is very serious. In the Church there is a phrase we are using all the time: ‘zero tolerance, zero tolerance’. And the pastors who, in some way, have not taken responsibility have to take responsibility for this irresponsibility… The world of abuse is a very harsh one, and I urge everyone to be very open about it. Regarding the question of how the process is going in the Portuguese Church: it is going well. It is going well and with serenity; seriousness is being sought in cases of abuse. The numbers sometimes end up being exaggerated, a bit for the comments we always like to make, but the reality is that it is going well and this gives me a certain tranquillity.

I would like to address one point and I would like to ask you journalists to collaborate on this. Do you have a phone today? A phone. Well, on any of these phones, for a fee and with a password, you have access to child sexual abuse. This comes into our homes and child sexual abuse is filmed live. Where is it filmed? Who are the perpetrators? This is one of the most serious plagues, next to the whole world (…) but I want to emphasise this because sometimes you don’t realise that things are so radical. When you use a child to make a spectacle of abuse, it draws attention. Abuse is like ‘consuming’ the victim, isn’t it? Or worse, hurting them and leaving them alive.

Talking to people who have been abused is a very painful experience, which is also good for me, not because I like to hear it, but because it helps me to deal with this drama. That is, to your question I would say what I said: the process is going well, I am informed about how things are going. The news may have exaggerated the situation, but things are going well as far as that is concerned. But also, with that, I would say, in some way: Help out. Help so that all types of abuse can be resolved, sexual abuse, but it is not the only one.

There are also other types of abuse that cry out to heaven: the abuse of child labour, the abuse of child labour, and it is used; the abuse of women, no? Even today, in many countries, surgery is still done on little girls: their clitoris is removed, and that is today, and it is done with a razor, and goodbye… Cruelty… And the abuse of labour, that is within sexual abuse, which is serious, and all that: there is a culture of abuse that humanity must review and must undergo a conversion.

Q: Jean-Marie GUÉNOIS – Le Figaro
Holy Father, how are you? How is your health, how is your convalescence? You have not read, or have read only small parts of five speeches. It’s unprecedented in a journey: why? Have you had eye problems, tiredness? Are texts too long? How do you feel feel? And allow me a small question about France. You are coming to Marseille, but you have never visited France. The people don’t understand, maybe it’s too small or do you have something against France?

My health is fine. The stitches have been removed; I lead a normal life; I wear a band that I have to wear for two or three months until my muscles get stronger.

My sight. In that parish I cut off the speech because there was a light in front of me and I couldn’t read, the light was in my eyes and that’s why I cut it. Some, through Matteo, have asked why I shortened the homilies that you have. When I speak, I don’t do academic homilies, but I try to make it as clear as possible. When I speak I always seek communication. You have noticed that even in the academic homily I make some jokes, some laughs to control communication. With the young people the long speeches had the essential of the message, the essential of the message, and I selected according to how I felt the communication.

You noticed that I asked a few questions and immediately the feedback showed me where it was going, whether it was wrong or not.

Young people don’t have a long attention span. Think about it: if you make a clear speech with an idea, an image, an affection, they can follow you for eight minutes. Incidentally, in Evangeli Gaudium, my first Apostolic Exhortation, I wrote a long, long chapter on the homily. Here there is a parish priest (referring to Don Benito Giorgetta, parish priest of Termoli, ed:)  he knows that homilies are sometimes a torture, torture, that they talk blah, blah, and people…

In some small towns, I don’t know about Termoli, men go out for a cigarette and come back. The Church must convert to this aspect of the homily: short, clear, with a clear message, and affectionate. That’s why I check how it goes with the young people and I make them speak. But I shortened it because… I need to leave the idea with young people.

Let’s move on to France. I went to Strasbourg, I will go to Marseilles, but not to France. There is a problem that concerns me, which is the Mediterranean. That’s why I’m going to France.

The exploitation of migrants is criminal. Not here in Europe, because it’s fine, we are more cultured, but in the concentration camps of North Africa… I recommend a book. There is a small booklet, a small one, written by a migrant who spent, I think, three years to come from Guinea to Spain because he was captured, tortured, enslaved. Migrants in those concentration camps in North (Africa): it’s terrible. At this moment – last week – the “Mediterranea Saving Humans” association was doing a job to rescue the migrants who were in the desert between Tunisia and Libya, because they had left them there to die. That book is called “Hermanito” – in Italian it has the subtitle “Fratellino” – but it can be read in two hours, it’s worth it. Read it and you will see the tragedy of the migrants before embarking.

The bishops of the Mediterranean will hold this meeting, even with some politicians, to reflect seriously on the tragedy of migrants. The Mediterranean is a cemetery, but it’s not the biggest cemetery. The largest cemetery is North Africa. This is terrible, read it. I go to Marseille for this. Last week, President Macron told me that it is his intention to come to Marseilles and I will stay a day and a half: I arrive in the afternoon and staying the following day.

(Matteo Bruni repeats the question: You have nothing against France?)

No. No, on this it’s a policy. I am visiting small European countries. The big countries, Spain, France, England, I’ll leave them for later, at the end. But as an option I started with Albania and so I did with other small ones. It’s nothing. France, two cities: Strasbourg and Marseille.

Q: Anita Hirschbeck – KNA
Holy Father, in Lisbon you told us that in the Church there is room for everyone, everyone, everyone. The Church is open to everyone, but at the same time not everyone has the same rights, opportunities, in the sense that, for example, women, homosexuals cannot receive all the sacraments. Holy Father how do you explain this inconsistency between an open Church and a Church not equal for all? Thank you.

You ask me a question that concerns two different points of view: the Church is open for everyone, then there is legislation that regulates life inside the Church. He who is inside follows the legislation. What you say is a simplification: “They cannot participate in the sacraments.” This does not mean that the Church is closed. Everyone meets God on their own way inside the Church, and the Church is mother and guides everyone on their own path. That’s why I don’t like to say: everyone comes, but you, this one, but the other one… Everyone, everyone in prayer, in inner dialogue, in pastoral dialogue, looks for the way forward.

That’s why I ask the question: Why not homosexuals? Everybody! And the Lord is clear: the sick, the healthy, old and young, ugly and beautiful… the good and the bad!

There is a kind of gaze that doesn’t understand this insertion of the Church as mother and thinks of it as a kind of “corporation” that you have to do this, or do it in this way and not another way, in order to get in to.

The ministeriality of the Church is another thing. [It is] the manner of carrying forward the flock. And in ministeriality, one of the important things is patience: accompanying people step by step on their way to maturity. Each one of us has this experience: that Mother Church has accompanied us and accompanies us in our own path of maturation.

I don’t like reduction. This is not ecclesial; it is gnostic. It is like a Gnostic heresy that is somewhat fashionable today. A certain Gnosticism that reduces ecclesial reality, and that doesn’t help. The Church is “mother” receiving everyone, and everyone makes their own way within the Church, without publicity, and this is very important. Thank you for the courage of asking this question. Thank you.

Matteo Bruni: The Pope would like to share a thought about WYD.

I would like to say one thing about how I experienced WYD. This is the fourth one I’ve experienced. The first one was in Rio de Janeiro which was monumental, Brazilian-style, beautiful! The second was in Krakow, the third in Panama; this is the fourth. This is the most numerous one. The hard, concrete data said there were more than a million. More. In fact, at the Vigil at night, yesterday, it was estimated to be one million four hundred or one million six hundred thousand people. These are the government figures. The number is impressive. Well prepared, eh! Of the ones I have seen, this is the best prepared.

The young people are a surprise. Young people are young, they act youthful, life is like that. But they are seeking to look forward. And they are the future. The idea is to accompany them. The problem is knowing how to accompany them. And that they shouldn’t detach themselves from their roots. That’s why I insist so much on dialogue between old and young, between grandparents with grandchildren. This dialogue is important, more important than the parent-child dialogue. With grandparents, because it is precisely there that you find the roots. Then young people: they are religious, they are looking for a non-hostile, non-artificial, non-legalistic faith, an encounter with Jesus Christ. And this is not easy.

They say, “But young people don’t always live life in accordance with morality….” Who among us has not made a moral mistake in our lives? Everyone has! With the commandments or with someone, each of us has our own downfalls in our own history. Life is like that. But the Lord is always waiting for us because He is merciful and [He is] Father, and mercy goes beyond everything.

For me the WYD was beautiful. Before I caught the plane, I was with the volunteers who were 25,000! [It was] a mystical experience, an engagement that was really beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. That’s what I wanted to say about Youth Day.

Q: Justin McLellan – Catholic News Service (CNS)
You spoke about World Youth Day. We have heard during these days testimonies of young people who have struggled with mental health, with depression. Have you ever struggled with this? And if someone decides to commit suicide, what would you say to the family members of this person who, given Catholic teachings on suicide, suffer in thinking this person has gone to hell?

Youth suicide is a major issue today, the numbers are major. The media does not often say so much or inform (about the issue). I have been – not (in the context of) confession, no – in dialogue with young people, taking up occasions for dialogue.

A good young man said to me: Can I ask you a question? What do you think about suicide? He did not speak our language, but I understood well and we started to talk about suicide. And finally he said to me: Thank you, because last year I was undecided whether to do it or not to do it.

So many young people are anxious and depressed but not only psychologically. Then in some countries that are very very demanding at the university, young people who do not succeed in getting a degree or finding a job, (and) commit suicide because they feel great shame. I’m not saying it’s an everyday issue but it’s a problem. A problem of our day. It’s something that happens.

Matteo Bruni:
Thank you, Your Holiness, for your answers.

Thank you for what you have done and remember (the book) “Hermanito” or “Little Brother,” the book on the migrant. Thank you.

This is a working translation and transcription. Words and expressions in parenthesis are provided for clarity.

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2023年8月7日