New Cardinal Arthur Roche receives the red three-cornered biretta hat from Pope Francis during a consistory inside St. Peter’s Basilica, at the Vatican, Saturday, Aug. 27, 2022. (Credit: Andrew Medichini/AP.)

(2022.8.29 Crux Senior Correspondent Elise Ann Allen)

 Vatican’s liturgy czar says Church makes tradition, not ‘people in lobbies’ローマ発 – バチカンの典礼部門の責任者で、枢機卿に叙任されたアーサー・ロッシュ典礼秘跡省長官はCruxとのインタビューで、教皇フランシスコが昨年6月にミサ典礼に関する自発教令「Traditionis custodes (伝統の守り手たち) 」を出されて以来、聖職者の間で議論の”政治化”が起きていることに警告した。


 そして、第二バチカン公会議で実施が決まった典礼改革について、「教会は、この公会議という最高立法機関で『Novus Ordo Missae(new order of the Mass=新しいミサ典礼様式)』が宣言された。そこでは、「ミサ典礼は、今日(の社会、教会)に適合した福音宣教の手段として、改革されなければならない、とうたっている」と言明。



 2012年から典礼秘跡省の次官を務め、昨年5月に現在のポストに就き、今回大司教から枢機卿に昇格したロッシュ長官に課せられた役割の一つは、この自発教令に対するラテン典礼派の反発を乗り切り、教令の徹底を図ることだ。 ロッシュ長官はインタビューで、このようなラテン語旧典礼ミサをめぐる問題に加えて、教皇フランシスコが進めるバチカン改革に対する理解、それを実施する上での自身の役割、そして、今回の枢機卿会議の目指すことについても語った。


Crux: As the head of a dicastery, your nomination was expected, in a sense, but what does this appointment signify for you?

Roche: It’s an immense honor. I can honestly say that even though I was made prefect of the congregation, it wasn’t made clear to me that it was a sine qua non that I would be a cardinal, especially because we knew that Predicate Evangelium was going to change the situation of the curia, so it’s first and foremost an honor for me, but it means that the pope thinks that I have something to offer, and I trust that he can see better than I can see with regard to that. The primary role of a cardinal is to advise a pope, and to elect his successor, but it’s primarily to advise the pope.

We live in an age where, with the media at least, and also with the political situation throughout the world, there’s a need now more than ever for care with regard to the unity of the church. The nature of the church is a communion, and a communion is always based at what is at the heart of our religion, which is charity. So, to be involved in that renewal, which comes from the Second Vatican Council, and which still is unrolling in a new way of discovery even today, to be part of that is a great responsibility.

As the head of a dicastery you have a very concrete role in this. How do you see your role specifically within this greater process that’s unfolding right now?

I think an openness to everyone. Predicate Evangelium itself, it isn’t just about the Roman curia, it’s also about episcopal conferences and the relationship of bishops with the See of Peter. We’re not just simply working for the pope, we’re also working for bishops, so in a sense we’re in between. You can say we’re bridge builders in a sense, because we share that pontifical character, from the pope himself, of building trust, of building openness, of building greater transparency, but also willingness to be of assistance and to take away what perhaps has been understood in the past of a policing function within the church, to be one of actually serving the ends of what the church is wanting to achieve – and the mandate for that we’ve received from the Council itself.

This aspect of service was an underlying theme throughout Predicate Evangelium. Would you describe that spirit of service as one of the lynchpins of the pope’s current reforms?

Yes, I do. He’s known as the Servant of the Servants of God, the servant of all ordained, and our Lord himself talks about how it’s the one who serves that’s important, in the process of evangelization, the process of creating greater communion within charity. So, I do think service is really important.

The pope talks about mission, but also conversion. So, a conversion of our attitudes, a different way of dealing with people, or bringing that conversion into our work, bringing that service into our work, bringing the Gospel of love into our work, is something that, thank God, I’ve experienced here since I’ve been in Rome within my own dicastery. I’m very fortunate we’ve got very dedicated people who are open to this new vision that the pope is presenting to us. It will take some time, I think, for it to actually be effective, but I think there is no doubt whatsoever that amongst the superiors of the dicasteries, that that is the common will, that this is how we’re going to move forward.

I have a question that might be a little uncomfortable, but it should be asked. You mentioned unity and bridge building. How does this apply to those who are perhaps wounded by the restrictions of the Traditional Latin Mass?

Well, there isn’t too much of a restriction. The Latin Tridentine Mass, or the Mass from the 1962 missal, is still available. But you know, you touch this area, and everyone starts screaming. That should tell us something straight away. What is this, that’s almost becoming hysterical? Because the church has decreed at its highest level of legislation, which is a council, an ecumenical council, it has decreed that the liturgy should be reformed, reformed for the present day so that it actually speaks as a vehicle of evangelization, as well as being, most importantly, the center of our worship of God, as a community, in charity.

It’s important to get the fundamental things right first, before they’re politicized, and I think there’s a lot of politicizing of this issue, which is unworthy, really.

Is it possible to build bridges with this element of politicization at play, or is it too difficult, in your view?

All I can say is that my dicastery is very open to talking to people, and that during the course of this past year, since the publication of Traditionis Custodis, I have received so-called “traditionalist” groups, but we’ve got to be very careful, because the church passes on the tradition, and it’s the church that makes the tradition, it’s not people in lobbies that create the tradition, but it’s the church in faithfulness to that.

I always think that, for me as an Englishman, a great example to me is our history, our Reformation history, where our young priests were tortured and very cruelly executed for two things: for the Mass, and in faithfulness to the See of Peter, in faithfulness to the pope. Whenever we celebrate Mass, we always mention as a point of unity, first that we’re in union with the pope, and second that we’re in union with the bishop, who is in union with the pope.

If you take that seriously, then it raises for all of us an examination of conscience with regard to how we view that: Is that really something that we view seriously, or are we trying to create another church? Are we trying to be Protestant instead of Catholic?

One final question: what are you most looking forward to during the meeting of cardinals, what are your goals? It’s been a long time since the cardinals have gathered, and many new ones have been appointed…

I’m really looking forward to meeting them, and just getting to know them, listening to them, discovering how they think and what their problems are. One of the things I discovered over the years working in the dicastery for divine worship, is that most of the missionary countries throughout the world are persecuted in one way or another, maybe not by the shedding of their blood, but certainly by laws and activity, etc.

Well, the bishops from those countries, they come in with a light step, and with a twinkle in their eye, and that tells me something, that they are very close to the Gospel, very close to their people, they are the ones who really have the joy of the Gospel shining from their very hearts. It’s very interesting for me to see that, but if you take a corporate model of episcopacy, then you’ll be becoming an administrator, you’re being an administrator, whereas to be a pastor is to be with the people.

The synodal process, of course, is helping us to do that. I think one of the great things of the synod has been that it has given permission for bishops to listen without having to fix things or without having to respond to things, but to actually listen, because you can listen at one level by hearing what’s being said, but there’s another level: from where is this coming? Why is it being said like this? Why is it being articulated? And in that we discovery the reality of the world in which we’re living, which is important because that’s the world to which we’ve been sent as missionaries, as evangelizers.


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